Tue 26 Sep 2006
How exciting to get a special request that I blog about something! Especially since the person who asked, Kate, asked for my opinion. I love giving my opinion.
Here are my thoughts on the question of moving from DC to Atlanta, and more generally, comparing the two metro areas:
COST OF LIVING: Atlanta wins this, hands down. We sold our 4th floor, walk-up, way-out-in-Reston, condo and purchased a nice single family house in the Metro-Atlanta equivalent of Takoma Park, the City of Decatur. If our house were in Takoma Park, it would be roughly twice as expensive.
Update for readers not in metro DC or metro Atlanta: Both municipalities are known for being progressive, diverse, having excellent public schools and very high taxes, and for being the epicenter of lesbian family life in their region. Atlantans joke about the pronouciation of “Decatur” in that regard — I’ll leave it to your imagination. I think most metro areas have somewhere similar — Park Slope, Shorewood, Somerville/Jamaica Plain, Hawthorne….
CAR TRAFFIC & COSTS: This is a draw. My car insurance went up here, which totally surprised me. But the drivers are actually worse. The traffic is a negligible percentage better. Car traffic and long commutes are hideous in both places.
PUBLIC TRANSIT: This one goes to DC, unless you already live outside the Metro or commuter rail range. The MARTA here isn’t very convenient for most people. I’ve ridden it twice, Jill maybe half a dozen times.
CULTURE: Atlanta has a worse reputation than it deserves, and the High Museum is really nice, but DC has such a great theater and artistic community that it wins hands down. Plus you just can’t compete with the monuments and the Smithsonian. I hear that the music scene is better in Atlanta, but I’m unqualified to have an opinion on that.
OVERALL POLITICAL “TONE”: This has to be broken down by community somewhat. In Atlanta, the split is “ITP” vs “OTP,” or “inside the perimeter” vs “outside the perimeter.” Technically that’s like inside vs outside the beltway, but the cultural meaning is more like DC & Maryland vs Virginia. I’d personally rank the general comfort level as follows:
- Montgomery County
- The City of Decatur
- The District
- Fulton County ITP
- PG County/Dekalb County ITP
- Northern Virginia (Note that I am not distinguishing Arlington separately. I never lived there & don’t have an opinion about it separately, although I understand that many people do.)
- Other Counties in Metro Atlanta
Living in ITP Atlanta doesn’t feel like I imagined living in “the South” would feel like. When we first visited, the two real estate agents we contacted both said they thought we would be fine anywhere ITP, and they recommended half a dozen neighborhoods. Atlanta is urban and cosmopolitan, I’m out everywhere, and it is 98% a non-issue. Maybe more.
I felt more hesitant about coming out to my neighbors when I lived in Shaw, and when I lived in Reston, although not when I lived on the Hill (in spite of the fact that my landlord was Senator Specter’s consipiracy theory staffer) or in Takoma Park. And I’m more comfortable coming out in work contexts here than when I was a lobbyist.
THE REAL LEGAL SITUATION FOR SAME-SEX FAMILIES: This goes to DC and Maryland, hands-down. But Georgia is (surprisingly) MUCH better than Virginia!Geogria law is actually silent on the question of whether or not same sex couples can adopt and both be the legal parents of a child. Some judges, in some counties, will grant the adoptions, others will not. This is being litigated and could possibly get worse. There is also always a worry that the legislature will make it worse, but the good news is that they only meet from January-March, so the paranoia and fear is finite.
Although our efforts to have Jill legally adopt Noah as a second parent were an awful roller-coaster, a gigantic pain in the ass, and much more expensive than we originally anticipated (what with having to MOVE), we were ultimately successful, as were those of all the other couples we’ve met in Atlanta.
And at the end of the day, isn’t that what it’s all about? Noah has two legal mommies, and if we’d stayed where we lived in metro DC, we would have had all the awful moving issues there too. (But at least we could have planned for them.)
WORK: It depends on your taste, but I give this one to Atlanta.
In DC, tons of people you meet have really interesting sounding jobs. On the down side of that, tons of people you meet spend the first 10 seconds of the conversation trying to figure out if you are important enough to keep talking with, or should they move on to someone more important?
In Atlanta, I’ve never had a conversation that felt like that. People here seem more interested in talking about something they’re interested in than what their job is.
People have a wider variety of jobs. A lot more people work for big companies. Far fewer people work for the government, although there are enough to notice, especially the CDC and the VA, in our area.
THE NEWS: You really can’t compete with the Washington Post and WAMU. WABE is pretty good, but the AJC? It has THREE sports sections on Saturday. The news part? Not so strong.
GAY BARS: I only went out once while I was here, before Noah was born. But women’s night at Hoedowns drew +150, which beats any crowd I ever saw on a Thursday night at Remingtons. (Even the night KJ became Ms. Rems!) Otherwise, I’m unqualified to opine.
I miss reading Lisa de Morales** with my morning coffee, and don’t even get Jill started on the theater critic at the AJC. Jill just pointed out that you can still read her — and the rest of the Washington Post online, but I like the newspaper. (And so does she.)
RESTAURANTS: DC edges out Atlanta in this category, but not by a whole lot. DC wins on convenience more than anything else. Atlanta is more scattershot. On the plus side, Atlanta is less expensive, or maybe less expensive on the “inexpensive-to-moderate” end of the spectrum.
Commenter Kate, be careful what you wish for! If you still want more on Atlanta vs DC, drop me a note at lesbianfamily (at) gmail dot com with your number.
**When you google Lisa de Morales, you don’t get a link to her column on the first results page. But you do get a link to regular commenter here, Jen (in MD)! I never was able to find a bio to link to….
PLLP 9/25(2): Pizza for dinner. It is really hard when Noah crashes at 6:15 pm.
PLLP 9/26: Fruit - I think I had a banana, but I don’t actually remember. Veg - mix of corn & greens with lunch, and corn with dinner. Treats - snack of last pkg pop-tarts & also some chocolate at work.





September 26th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
Cost of living is a huge plus for Atlanta. It is nice to have money that once went to the mortgage available for other things (you know, like a KID!).
Traffic: volume in the Atlanta area is pretty bad at ALL times of the day. Plus there are a lot more 18-wheelers traveling Atlanta roads than in DC. AND there are ALWAYS wrecks at all times of day.
There are more SUVs and huge pickups in the Atlanta area. You simply cannot escape getting behind one, no matter how hard you (I) try.
There is more testosterone in ATL drivers, both in men AND women. ATL drivers drive faster than DC drivers, but DC drivers are way more rude.
CHerish the Metro, DC people, even with its flaws. Come ride MARTA and you’ll see what I mean.
Culture: We were spoiled with the theatre scene in DC. I used to love going to the theatre in DC and I have little desire to see anything nowadays here. Still, there IS a lot to do in Atlanta. I do wish the ATL had a WNBA franchise! The music scene in Atlanta seems to be pretty outstanding–from the home-grown (mostly hip-hop) artists to lots of great clubs, this is a good music town. My only complaint is that DC is an automatic stop for lots of bands…not so with Atlanta.
Once you get outside the city and its very close-in areas, you see lots and lots of Bush stickers, yellow ribbons and churches.
There are a lot of interesting companies (Coca-Cola, for example) headquartered in Atlanta.
Liza is right–people in Atlanta don’t put such a premium on what others do for a living. And you’d be hard-pressed to find 15 guys wearing ties on the street in any busy area!
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution is a pretty bad newspaper but we read it anyway because that’s what’s here and we enjoy making fun of it. If you move, you can still read the Post online AND you can buy the Sunday NY Times at any local drugstore or coffeehouse (like we do!)
Oh–and I don’t have a problem with the AJC theatre critic–it’s one of their music “Critics” that I have a problem with!
I think restaurants are a toss-up. Liza is right that Atlanta is so spread out and that’s a problem. But Atlanta is a great dining town.
I can’t comment on the bars because I haven’t been to any. Whether or not it’s easy or difficult to meet people here…that’s going to vary. I’d say we’ve had trouble meeting and connecting with folks here, but it doesn’t mean that you will, Kate!
Atlanta, even with it being stupid hot in the summer, has a slight edge. You really don’t need more than a light coat even in winter. If you are a “four seasons” person, you might miss snow.
DC gets the edge for easy access to mountains AND the beach.
In DC you can feel like you are truly in the center of the universe; in Atlanta you feel like you are that much closer to Alabama.
One cool tradition in the South that we think is kinda cool (even though we personally are not into it) is how crazy people are for college football around here! Saturdays in the fall are all about college ball, and folks around here are incredibly passionate about their teams. Atlanta is such a melting pot that besides your predictable SEC fans, you’ve got everything from the ACC to the Big 10 and Pac-10 and everything in between.
Anyway, here we are and we’re not going anywhere for now. I think there are nice places to live in the Atlanta area: places where you can get a nice home ITP where your commute won’t be bad; where you can wear your shorts outside in November and comment on your neighbor’s college flag and be comfortable being who you are.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:07 pm
That’s amazing. You two know more about Atlanta than I have learned about Vegas in 6 years. Okay, for 3 of those years I worked/lived on the road. But still….
I know a few good places to get a burger, the best place to find electrical supplies, and how to avoid traffic on the Strip.
Political climate? Culture? What people talk about? No clue.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:28 pm
Political climate? Culture? In Las Vegas? Sean, you can’t find something that’s… well, saying “not there” would be a bit strong. Instead, let’s just say “well hidden.”
Of course, you do have close access to some incredible mountains, Lake Mead, the Grand Canyon.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:59 pm
Well…you\’ve both met my parents.
Dad\’s favorite topic is political demographics. He\’s kind of like guys who are REALLY into baseball statistics, only about who lives where and how (if) they vote.
Coincidently, the two states he knows inside and out that way are Wisconsin and Nevada, because he\’s actually done professional redistricting consulting in both of those places.
Dad could give you a complete demographic & political breakdown of anywhere in Vegas (or Reno) in half-mile or smaller incriments, if you want to know more about your neighborhood, or another neighborhood if you look at moving. If you catch him in the right mood, he\’ll add charts and maps and tell you the story of the time he succeeded in drawing rural Democratic district in Nevada.
If you live anywhere else, he can probably only do that on a city or county level, but if it\’s a place he finds interesting — if your community is the most or least something or has the most or least someones, for example — he\’ll delight in seeing if he can nail your background just from a few questions. (He had a lot of fun surprising the PG County Delegation at the National Conference of State Legislators a few years ago, and they loved it, even inviting him back to testify.)
It\’s like being raised by wolves. I don\’t even think about the fact that I\’m analyzing all this stuff. But the right trigger releases a cascade of information.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:34 am
i want to be a conspiracy theory staffer! that’s my dream job, one that i didn’t know existed until now. how does one get such a job?
a very interesting post, i’m glad you wrote it. not too many surprises except that i don’t believe jill that there are more suv’s in atlanta. have you all driven around in the suburbs (i.e. falls church, potomac)? every single vehicle is a SUV.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:56 am
OMG, that guy was funny. He was very nice, but he personally reinvestigated Waco and the claims of Chinese money laundering & the Democratic party. And he really believed that the Clintons were part of some giant liberal conspiracy. I felt very safe living in his basement, although ironically, shortly before I moved to Shaw, he got mugged in the front yard.
Re: SUVs. It’s true, I swear. Remember, we used to live in Reston, and I spent a year commuting between Shaw & Dulles! There are more insane supersized SUVs here, like Lincoln Navigators.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:43 pm
Liza & Jill,
Thank you so much for taking the time to write about Atlanta & DC. Nicole and I live in Downtown Silver Spring and we are just beginning to understand how fortunate we are to be living in such a progressive area. In fact, we just elected a lesbian as our district’s Delegate! She makes the third in our state! But the closer we get to hitting our thirties, the more we think about how the extremely high cost of living will affect our future. We currently rent a great apartment, but really want to someday own a home with a yard that would fit our future family. I just don’t know how that could happen here when modest homes don’t even start under $400,000. I’m really happy to hear that the Atlanta area offers most of what we love about MoCo county. Thanks again for taking the time to write this entry and I will be emailing you! Take care!
September 27th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
kate, you might be surprised what you can afford in this area in a couple of months with the housing market correction. our friends recently bought a nice single family house in a nice neighborhood in hyattsville with a fenced yard for a lot less than $400,000 — and i bet prices will be even more affordable in a few months. right now, there are a million “for sale” signs around takoma park and silver spring, and i’ve even seen more than one “price reduced” sign — a non-existent sight 8 months ago. i think you might be pleasantly surprised at real estate prices this winter.
of course this market correction is kind of a downer for us homeowners, since it was a quite the rush to think about how we could make a quick $300,000 if we wanted to sell. but we aren’t planning to move for a while so we’ll be fine.
anyway, atlanta might be a great move for you, but before you decide for sure you might want to check out some nice neighborhoods in close-in pg county. if i were going to buy a house now, that’s where i’d look.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
Thanks, Jen!
September 27th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
We actually have wonderful elected officials here too, they\’re just stuck operating as the big blue button on the red state.
Georgia\’s only out lesbian Assembly Representative lives about a mile from us, but the district line is about a quarter mile in the same direction.
Here, houses that look pretty much like the little red brick houses all over Silver Spring go for between $175-$275 in the City of Decatur; less in some of the other lesbian-friendly areas.
Good luck with your decision. We know how complicated it is to make.
September 28th, 2006 at 7:36 am
… I don’t have much to add to DC-to-Atlanta but I’ll keep you posted in San Francisco/Boston-to-OtherPlaces when that transition happens.
Actually I’m cheating — Liza, email address? I’ve actually got a work-related question. And we should just catch up. And Noah is *ADORABLE* (you already knew that but it must be said). Does the camera add 10% adorableness?
September 28th, 2006 at 10:12 am
p.s. liza - you probably had trouble googling lisa de moraes because you spelled her name wrong. try “moraes” not “morales”…
September 28th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
Doh! Thank’s Jen!